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Re: Buckster


Ben Franklin also believed that once a man departed from his individual morality, he could only trust in divine providence that his life and fortune would reflect the virtue of his character. Throughout the drafting of the Constitution, Franklin wrote in his journal of the assembly retiring to pray during difficult passages.

Please show me reference(s) to this.  From what I have read, the assembly never once called upon God for guidance.  Franklin is purported to have once made a motion that they pray for guidance, but it never happened.

Certainly, you want it to be believed that Franklin was a Christian.  However, in Franklin's own words, he was not.  While he did believe in the deist view of God, and even respected Jesus as a great teacher, he certainly could not be described as a Christian when he specifically says he does not believe Jesus is God (as all Christians do). 

He says in a letter he wrote shortly before his death to Ezra Stiles, President of Yale, "I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his (Jesus) divinity".   He also lets it be known that he thinks Jesus' message has been corrupted by the various sects.  Remember that this is shortly before his death.  Here is the paragraph from the letter:

“As to Jesus of Nazareth, my opinion of whom you particularly desire, I think the system of Morals and his Religion, as he left them to us, the best the World ever saw or is likely to see; but I apprehend it has received various corrupt changes, and I have, with most of the present Dissenters in England, some doubts as to his divinity; though it is a question I do not dogmatize upon, having never studied it, and think it needless to busy myself with it, when I expect soon an opportunity of knowing the Truth with less trouble.  I see no harm, however, in its being believed, if that belief has the good consequence, as probably it has, of making his doctrines more respected and better observed; especially as I do not perceive that the Supreme takes it amiss, by distinguishing the unbelievers in His government of the world with any particular marks of His displeasure.

In the next paragraph, he says he would not really like this view to be publicly known, as it would draw much criticism to him.  During his life, he let everyone believe what they want, even when he found their beliefs to be "unsupportable and even absurd".  Here is the full paragraph:

“I shall only add, respecting myself, that, having experienced the goodness of that Being in conducting me prosperously through a long life, I have no doubt of its continuance in the next, without the smallest conceit of meriting it...   I confide that you will not expose me to criticism and censure by publishing any part of this communication to you.  I have ever let others enjoy their religious sentiments, without reflecting on them for those that appeared to me unsupportable and even absurd.  All sects here, and we have a great variety, have experienced my good will in assisting them with subscriptions for building their new places of worship; and, as I never opposed any of their doctrines, I hope to go out of the world in peace with them all."

Franklin a Christian or Deist?  Let the man speak for himself: ". . . Some books against Deism fell into my hands. . . It happened that they wrought an effect on my quite contrary to what was intended by them; for the arguments of the Deists, which were quoted to be refuted, appeared to me much stronger than the refutations; in short, I soon became a thorough Deist."

And: “I have found Christian dogma unintelligible. Early in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies.”

Franklin also said, "When a religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, ‘tis a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one.”

And: “I cannot conceive otherwise than that He, the Infinite Father, expects or requires no worship or praise from us, but that He is even infinitely above it.”

Dr. Priestley, an intimate friend of Franklin, wrote of him: "It is much to be lamented that a man of Franklin's general good character and great influence should have been an unbeliever in Christianity, and also have done as much as he did to make others unbelievers"

Franklin: “The way to see by Faith is to shut the eye of Reason.” 

You seem to see by faith that Franklin was a fellow Christian.  Can you possibly open your eyes long enough to see the truth of the matter, and stop propogating these falsehoods in the name of furthering your unfounded views?  Or will you continue to "bear false witness"?

This is CABL.com posting #66864. Tiny Link: cabl.co/mryC
Posted in reply to: Buckster by empirebuilder
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