>> So when we start revising history on what the founders said, if you aren't sure and we all can't be all the time, use this rule of thumb, "The founders believed deeply in God, and wanted in the worst way to serve him well."<<
Seems funny that they would believe what you say above (which I have found no reference to in any of their writings), yet put this in the U.S. Constitution: "No religious test shall ever be required as qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." -- U.S. Constitution, Article VI.iii (1787).
Funny also that we would find writings like this from them:
"The Christian god can easily be pictured as virtually the same god as the many ancient gods of past civilizations. The Christian god is a three headed monster; cruel, vengeful and capricious. If one wishes to know more of this raging, three headed beast-like god, one only needs to look at the caliber of people who say they serve him. They are always of two classes: fools and hypocrites."- Thomas Jefferson, letter to his nephew, Peter Carr.
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear. Do not be frightened from this inquiry by any fear of its consequences.... If it end in a belief that there is no god, you will find incitements to virtue in the comfort and pleasantness you feel in its exercise and in the love of others it will procure for you." - Thomas Jefferson, to Peter Carr, 10 Aug. 1787
"No man [should] be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship, place, or ministry whatsoever, nor [should he] be enforced, restrained, molested, or burdened in his body or goods, nor ... otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief ... All men [should] be free to profess and by argument to maintain their opinions in matters of religion, and ... the same [should] in no wise diminish, enlarge, or affect their civil capacities."- Thomas Jefferson, Statute for Religious Freedom, 1779
"The impious presumption of legislators and and rulers, civil as well as ecclesiastical, who, being themselves but fallible and uninspired men, have assumed dominion over the faith of others, setting up their own opinions and modes of thinking as the only true and infallible, and as such endeavoring to impose them on others, hath established and maintained false religions over the greatest part of the world and through all time: That to compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." - Thomas Jefferson, opening passage to Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, 1786
"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, god, are immaterial, is to say they are nothings, or that there is no god, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise ... without plunging into the fathomless abyss of dreams and phantasms. I am satisfied, and sufficiently occupied with the things which are, without tormenting or troubling myself about those which may indeed be, but of which I have no evidence." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to John Adams, August 15, 1820
"I have recently been examining all the known superstitions of the world, and do not find in our particular superstition one redeeming feature. They are all alike, founded upon fables and mythologies. The Christian God is a being of terrific character -- cruel, vindictive, capricious, and unjust." - Thomas Jefferson, letter to Dr. Woods
Jefferson has hundreds of things to say in the same vein, but you get the general idea of how he felt about religion.
"The United States of America have exhibited, perhaps, the first example of governments erected on the simple principles of nature; and if men are now sufficiently enlightened to disabuse themselves of artifice, imposture, hypocrisy, and superstition, they will consider this event as an era in their history. Although the detail of the formation of the American governments is at present little known or regarded either in Europe or in America, it may hereafter become an object of curiosity. It will never be pretended that any persons employed in that service had interviews with the gods, or were in any degree under the influence of Heaven, more than those at work upon ships or houses, or laboring in merchandise or agriculture; it will forever be acknowledged that these governments were contrived merely by the use of reason and the senses." - John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88)
"Thirteen governments [of the original states] thus founded on the natural authority of the people alone, without a pretence of miracle or mystery, and which are destined to spread over the northern part of that whole quarter of the globe, are a great point gained in favor of the rights of mankind." - John Adams, "A Defence of the Constitutions of Government of the United States of America" (1787-88)
"As I understand the Christian religion, it was, and is, a revelation. But how has it happened that millions of fables, tales, legends, have been blended with both Jewish and Christian revelation that have made them the most bloody religion that ever existed?" - John Adams, letter to F.A. Van der Kamp, December 27, 1816
"I almost shudder at the thought of alluding to the most fatal example of the abuses of grief which the history of mankind has preserved -- the Cross. Consider what calamities that engine of grief has produced!" - John Adams, letter to Thomas Jefferson
The priesthood have, in all ancient nations, nearly monopolized learning.... And, even since the Reformation, when or where has existed a Protestant or dissenting sect who would tolerate A FREE INQUIRY? The blackest billingsgate, the most ungentlemanly insolence, the most yahooish brutality is patiently endured, countenanced, propagated, and applauded. But touch a solemn truth in collision with a dogma of a sect, though capable of the clearest proof, and you will soon find you have disturbed a nest, and the hornets will swarm about your legs and hands, and fly into your face and eyes." - John Adams, letter to John Taylor, 1814
"As the government of the United States is
not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no
character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquility of Musselmen
[Muslims] ... it is declared ... that no pretext arising from religious opinion
shall ever product an interruption of the harmony existing between the two
countries....
and...
"The United States is not a Christian nation
any more than it is a Jewish or a Mohammedan nation."
--
Treaty of Tripoli (1797), carried unanimously by the Senate and signed into law
by John Adams
Adams has more to say as well, but again, you get the general idea.
Madison actually authored the first ammendment. What do we think he intended with it? Well, being good friends with Jefferson and agreeing with him in matters of religion and state in their private correspondence, we can guess. But we don't have to. Madison spelled it out more than once himself in public, and these documents aren't hard to find. Here's an interesting one, for example: http://www.sunnetworks.net/~ggarman/estaorel.html
The others of our forfathers were mostly of a similar bent toward religion and state. We hear about how they were all such Godly men and all, but the actual evidence in their correspondence and by their public actions say otherwise. Doing a little digging into these stories of our pious, god-loving forefathers usually finds at the root some well-meaning religious person simply making things up, or slicing a single phrase out of a sentence or document that seems to support them at face value. Reading the entire text usually shows a whole different animal though.
During their day, before these men were dressed in religious garments by the clergy after their deaths, they were regarded by the religious of their day as little better than godless atheists. They professed a belief in "Nature's God" or "the god of nature" or similar, professed to be Deists and Unitarians, believing that a supreme being created the heavens and the Earth, then played no further role, leaving it to mankind. These include even Washington and Franklin, men the religious of our day tell us were God-fearing men who believed in the Christian God. There is little evidence that they were however, and much to suggest they were not.
If you look only at religious web sites and people as sources, you will find only their particular, twisted, clipped, mis-quoted and one-sided version of history. Look at actual historical sources and you will find whole quotes and complete letters and documents these men wrote. Read them and you will have but one conclusion: The ACTUAL history of the U.S., our forfathers, and religion and state is NOT the history that the moral majority wants you to believe it is.
